Daf 33; Suitable For Trialing?

[Stephen Bailey]

Remember that the lowest point will contact at the lowest setting on a trial, as the suspension compresses after a "bump".. 

[Simon Woodall]

I would have said that six inches ground clearance is an absolute minimum, not an optimistic target to aim for.

[Andy Hutchings]

I would have said that six inches ground clearance is an absolute minimum, not an optimistic target to aim for.

Yes, interesting.... I need to think more on this. I DON'T want the car to deviate too much from the original look, as I use it regularly on ordinary roads. The "high up" look of some competitors' cars wouldn't suit a Daf 33, being such a small vehicle in the first place.

Given the current lock down, I've printed off the route of the "Exeter Trial" and am going to study it, using a combination of 1/25,000 Ordnance Survey maps and Google Earth (& a little local knowledge; I was born & brought up in Devon and have relatives in Mary Tavy, near Tavistock) and imagine what the trickier parts would be like in the Daf.... 

[Alastair Queen]

The "high up" look of some competitors' cars wouldn't suit a Daf 33, being such a small vehicle in the first place.

I don't think there's much need to emulate the more extreme [well developed?] production cars seen out there...

However, consider looking underneath, and try to figure out what could catch on a rock? What could sustain damage? [Especially when you decide you like trialling, and get the bit 'tween your teeth somewhat?]

Is there anything that looks a bit vulnerable under there? Exhaust silencer, maybe? Or exposed wires or fuel lines, perhaps? Brake pipes?  Maybe invest in a decent set of shock absorbers?  Do you think suspension components could do with beefing up a bit? [Only time will tell, eh?}

Can you avoid low profile tyres, for example? {Talking of tyres? Perhaps not a good idea to fit expensive tyres just for the name and reputation? One decent rip in a sidewall will make that tyre a waste of money....because of the nature of the ground you will drive over, damaging a tyre should be considered a 'given']...Perhaps you can get hold of a set of steel wheels [6 might be good?] that can be shod to suit, and won't worry you if one or two get bent in the process? Save your decent  road wheels for Monday morning...?

Don't forget, once your car has completed a trial or two, it will acquire a genuine 'competition history'.....Provable too.....nothing like a bit of genuine background, eh?

[Andy Hutchings]

Some further thoughts and responses to everyone's helpful input:

I've had a good look under the Daf and have noticed the following points; to start with, the prop shaft is enclosed within the backbone of the car floor. In Dafs the prop shaft is made of aluminium and is extremely light, as it spins at engine, not road speed. The exhaust pipe runs down the middle of the car and is the lowest point of the car. The fuel line runs along the off-side sill from the tank, which is in the off-side floor of the boot, to the engine bay, where the pump is on the off-side of the engine. It is reasonably well protected as it's tucked into a crevice above the sill, but under the floor. Of more concern, from a damage point of view are the brake and vacuum pipes, all of which also run down the centre of the car, above the exhaust. The car has a single line braking system, so damage to the brake line would disable the braking system. In addition, any damage to the pipes carrying the vacuum to the transmission would disable the car. But I'm still up for it!

I've also found six spare wheels and plan to re-shoe them as soon as reasonably possible. Although it was suggested I don't fit a premium tyre, as I'll be using the car on normal roads as well I shall be looking at buying  a set of six Firestone 145/80R13 tyres once things settle down.

Once again, many thanks for everyone's input and interest!

[Stephen Bailey]

Re route the brake and vacuum lines inside the car.... 

[Paul K]

As Stephen says.  If you have major concerns, is there the possibility of running these two pipes through the interior of the car?  A new brake line through the interior can be connected front and rear somewhere into the existing lines by means of flared, threaded unions.  You'd need to have a flaring tool and need to fit grommets where the line enters and leaves the interior.  It'd give you peace of mind 

[Andy Hutchings]

Had some further thoughts... Having had a further read of the rules, my understanding is that fitting 145 profile tyres would NOT be acceptable, as they're not original specification, so it'll be 135 profile ones-Firestones!

Dafs have their prop shafts enclosed in the central box section of the car's frame, inside of which also runs the handbrake cable and the transmission selector. Although I've not looked, there might be room within the tunnel to run the vacuum and brake pipes, although this is just at the planning stage at the moment.

[Simon Woodall]

my understanding is that fitting 145 profile tyres would NOT be acceptable

Not True.
The relevant rules in the Blue Book Section T are:-
10.9.Wheels of up to the standard diameter must be used, except for Classes 5(b), 7(a) and 8 where wheel diameter is free.
10.9.1.In Class 8, the maximum tyre section must be 185.
10.9.2.In all Classes 1 to 8 (except Class 2) the maximum permitted difference between front and rear tyres must be two sections.
10.9.3.No tyre may be smaller than that recommended by the car manufacturer.
So, 10.9 says standard DIAMETER (not width), 10.9.3 says No Smaller, nothing about bigger.
Go for the 145s.   slightly increased ground clearance,  More squidge in the tyre to protect the rims.

Sqeeze 'em on, and fit inner tubes.

[Andy Hutchings]

Thanks for the clarification! Incidentally, does anyone use cross-ply tyres for trialling? I wondered if they would offer more grip in muddy conditions and having more rigid sides they might "dig in" to the mud more than radials. If not, I'll be going ahead with the 145 Firestones.

Also, may I ask if it's O.K. to fit tubes to wheels and tyres which wouldn't normally have tubes?

[Stephen Bailey]

Thanks for the clarification! Incidentally, does anyone use cross-ply tyres for trialling? I wondered if they would offer more grip in muddy conditions and having more rigid sides they might "dig in" to the mud more than radials. If not, I'll be going ahead with the 145 Firestones.

Also, may I ask if it's O.K. to fit tubes to wheels and tyres which wouldn't normally have tubes?

I think you want the tyres to flatten out rather than dig in.

And yes many competitors use tubes in tubeless rims...

[Paul Wheatley]

Thanks for the clarification! Incidentally, does anyone use cross-ply tyres for trialling? I wondered if they would offer more grip in muddy conditions and having more rigid sides they might "dig in" to the mud more than radials. If not, I'll be going ahead with the 145 Firestones.

Also, may I ask if it's O.K. to fit tubes to wheels and tyres which wouldn't normally have tubes?

I have a Liege which I have trialled, but not recently. These cars have 16” wheels as standard and the standard tyre size is 5.25/5.50. There is very little choice of tyres in that size and the vast majority are cross plies. From experience, even when let down to very low pressure there isn’t enough give for them to flex enough to shed dirt and mud. Most regular triallers have fitted non-standard (but authorised) 15” wheels where there is at least some choice of radials.

[rick howell]

My uncle Cyril (an MT colour sergeant in the RMs) had a Daf 33 then a 66 in the '70s. He drove all over the place in those little cars - Scotland, Wales, Derbyshire, from Devon, with 4 adults onboard and towing a trailer. It never let him (them) down. Mind you, they didn't go fast as such.....two days to NE Scotland. In summer '76 they were overtaken by a hedge fire in Shropshire. They knew how to live, my aunt and uncle!

For what it's worth (and what do I know, I'm a motorcyclist) when I worked for English China Clays they had narrow deeply treaded tyres on the Landies as it cut through the clay to grip on the drier stuff underneath, whereas the Hi-Lux with it's fat tyres couldn't follow even with reduced tyre pressures. 

[Paul Wheatley]

I’d love to be allowed to use Land Rover tyres; they could be made to fit the wheels of a Liege. 

[tony.branson]

Hi Andy,
I've come to the thread a little late as I was waiting for approval of my forum registration. I trialed Daf 66's from 1983 to 1996 with a modicum of success, 2 golds and a class win on the Allen. Dennis Greenslade and Adrian Tucker-Peake  have said much of the important things. The clutch is certainly the achilles heel. The first trial I did was a Lands End and at the bottom of a number of the sections all I got was a growling noise and a lot of smoke. I latter fitted the Volvo 66 version which had a declutching mechanism. I'm afraid that isn't an option on a 33. The low ratio hold isn't a locking mechanism. It feeds manifold vacuum to the change down side of the diaphragm in the primary transmission unit so once you put your foot down the low ratio effect is lost. I fitted a non return valve but this does have some strange effects on gear ratios on the road.
By the way have you gathered the clever way of belt changing? You raise the rear end securely on axle stands you swap the vacuum pipes on the primary unit, you rev the engine taking your foot off several times to create the maximum vacuum. This get the CVT to go into a high ratio and you can then put a spacer between the halves of the secondary pulley, release the tension and the belts should slip off easily. Of course with your Kevlar belts you probably won't need to change them.
I would endorse the advice about power to weight ratio, you only need to look at the climbing ability of Austin 7s to see that huge amounts of power are not he only solution. With the 66 I had the option of the volvo 343 1400cc engine. My very good friend Derek Reynolds had a 66 with a Renault 5 Gordini engine, however he had a penchant for buying 17mm spanners at car boot sales along with sundry other heavy tools all of which he tended to carry, possibly contributing to his lack of success. The final thing to know is what to say when someone asks you why are driving a Daf? The answer is: Well somebody has to. Good luck hope to see you on the hills, I'm in a red Marlin.
Tony