Author Topic: MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.  (Read 1000 times)

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Offline Stephen Bailey

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MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.
« on: September 01, 2019, 06:26:56 pm »
Why is it that Non MCC members are allowed not only to enter the events without paying for membership but also can compete for the medals as well?

This can mean MCC members loosing out to a medal or trophy due to non members....

This is also not reciprocated in their events...

Is it not about time the MCC looked after its members first, and made these other groups Non-Scoring entries?


Offline Mark Gregg

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Re: MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2019, 09:50:28 pm »
Barriers to entry are a tangible reason for falling entries, actively remove those barriers and more folk enter, the perfect example been this years Edinburgh. The more folk who enter the lower the financial risk to the club and those risks are huge today and getting bigger. Next years entry fees are rising significantly to cover those costs. have you tried to enter a vmcc event and been refused? can you give an example where a non member competing has prevented a member of gaining a medal or triple or trophy?

we have to move forward and fast not retreat backward ..

Offline Stephen Bailey

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Re: MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2019, 05:12:51 pm »
have you tried to enter a vmcc event and been refused? can you give an example where a non member competing has prevented a member of gaining a medal or triple or trophy?
we have to move forward and fast not retreat backward ..

Mmmmmm…. I don't know about the Medal or trophy bit … However the possibility of that happening is real.

As fer entering a Vmcc or TRF event I understand that that they do not Give awards to Non Members and with the TRF wont even let you enter unless you are a TRF member.

So why not allow them to enter for Honour only (and perhaps a finishing certificate).

This will boost club funds and allow potential members to join in and then become MCC members for awards...

And at the same time get a reciprocal agreement from said clubs for MCC Members.

That is moving forwards.

Offline Mark Gregg

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Re: MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2019, 06:41:16 pm »
Open doors with no strings is the way to build friendships and strong partnerships, ifs buts and maybes and more rules are not positives.

In three weeks competitors wont give a thought to where their competitors come from or what club they belong to . the challenge as always is unique to the MCC , its you V the club not anyone else its a two horse race, nice and simple easy to understand no barriers no ifs buts or maybes.

when you arrive at that control/ hill/ test does it cross your mind what club that cheery face belongs to? I hope not because at least two sections are completely staffed by non members, at least half the official vehicles are crewed by non members. NON of the 20 odd Radio amateurs who ensure the event has effective communications are members they provide their time and expensive equipment free of charge, two of them even provide and drive the radio car that the clerk of course uses through out the event.

All of the above happily support the hundred or so members who travel from as far as the the north of Scotland to the deep south west without whom the trial could not run.

we absolutely must welcome all the support whether in the form of competitors or supporters no matter from where it comes and without putting up petty barriers. The MCC events are rightly viewed as Blue Ribbon in classic trials besides great motoring challenges we must have an absolute open door policy no ifs buts or maybes


Offline David (tufty) White

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Re: MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2019, 07:44:23 pm »
Well said Mark.

We need as many potential members as possible to see what this club does, then there's a chance they will join or at least mention it to their friends who will join and enter an event.

We need more members and are so lucky to have so many non-members who do so much for us.

Offline Jason Potts

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Re: MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2019, 07:33:54 am »
What other clubs get invited?


By the way, the regs for the Beamish trophy trial state that any vmcc non member has to pay a £5 fee for a day membership. That includes us

Offline Stephen Bailey

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Re: MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2019, 09:46:00 am »
I don't see running fer Honour only as a barrier at all.

More like allowing non club members to compete for awards is a barrier for MCC membership. Why would people join if they can enter by being a member of something else?

I figure that on some competitors mind its now "I hope that if I don't get up this hill I hope others don't either".

This thinking has been demonstrated in more than one post Trial gathering. It is not ifs and buts...

And since the one up rule was put in some years ago, Trialling has not been about the competitors vs the Club it the became Competitor against Competitor.


Offline Stephen Bailey

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Re: MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2019, 09:54:02 am »
Well said Mark.

We need as many potential members as possible to see what this club does, then there's a chance they will join or at least mention it to their friends who will join and enter an event.

We need more members and are so lucky to have so many non-members who do so much for us.

Yes... However there is no incentive to Join the MCC. Its a kind of invisible barrier that the MCC has set up to membership.

Many join the MCC so as to avoid Joining another club to enter the ACTC rounds....

The same will go for the invited Clubs in MCC events...

Double standards here: Open door for MCC events to others, Exclusion from those other Clubs and groups events for MCC members.... 

At least negotiate a reciprocal agreement about event entries for their clubs events..... Why was this not done?


This needs a re-think.

Now where are the other members thoughts and experiences on this matter?

Offline Jason Potts

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Re: MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2019, 11:41:26 am »
Quote
Now where are the other members thoughts and experiences on this matter? 



I replied above.....

Playing devils advocate, and I'm not intending to do this, but.....

It sounds like the thing to do is just join the VMCC. Its cheaper and you can do all the mcc events without paying for membership and do any of the VMCC events without paying their £5 day membership everytime.

If people cotton on to this we'll loose members not gain them.

In fact, as I'm a member of both clubs it sounds like I can now let my mcc membership laps and save £38 per year.

The solution is to have a day membership fee like they do for non members

Offline Paul Wheatley

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Re: MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2019, 09:55:15 pm »
How about letting Class 8 cars run in Class 7 and take the Class award?
PW.

Offline Tony Bishop

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Re: MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2019, 09:44:21 pm »
With regard to Jason's comments about joining the VMCC to ride in MCC events, can the VMCC issue the validation number to obtain the ACU trials registration ?
Possibly not because the Beamish Trial run by the VMCC is held under the auspices of the AMCA.
If not, then you would have to be a member of another club or indeed the MCC to be able to get the ACU registration.

Offline Stephen Bailey

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Re: MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2019, 10:58:30 am »
Strange that the MCC is a Club...… Now my definition of a club is one that has Club members and events for Club members.

If that is construed as a barrier for some reason, then why not let anyone compete and compete for awards?


The TRF can issue ACU Registration.

Many MCC members are also members of the TRF.

As a member of the TRF you can enter any other open trial (as can any one) all the TRF events and the MCC Events.

As a member of the MCC you can enter any other open trial (as can any one) and Only MCC events.

So what's one good reason why any one should be a member of the MCC?

Offline Jason Potts

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Re: MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2019, 04:52:28 pm »
Quote
    can the VMCC issue the validation number to obtain the ACU trials registration ?

Yes you can get an ACU licence code from the VMCC.

Offline Keith Johnston

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Re: MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2019, 05:09:33 pm »
An interesting debate! I must say that I agree wholeheartedly with Mark G's comments.

Its important to bear in mind that the invitation to enter all classes is being extended to the TRF on a trial basis for one year i.e. 2020.

It may well be that some dual TRF/MCC members are lost to the MCC during the year, but of course TRF only members would not have access to the other benefits of MCC membership.

We need to look ahead and develop innovative approaches to attract new entrants and [retain existing ones] to our events .......watch this space.

Offline Paul K

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Re: MCC open to VMCC and Now the TRF but not recipricated.
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2019, 06:42:59 am »
We need to look ahead and develop innovative approaches to attract new entrants and [retain existing ones] to our events .......watch this space.
The MCC has to stay financially viable to stay in existence, therefore, we must be able to cover the costs of the events. If entries fall, entry fees will increase.  So if insufficient MCC members enter an event, why not invite non-members (who could be charged a membership fee for the event) to compete.  As Keith states, they do not get the other benefits of MCC membership.

Another point to consider is that there may be many potential entrants in the north, who would like to compete in the Edinburgh Trial, but don't because that is the only MCC event that they can see themselves entering. The events in the south west are impractical for them.  The same point could apply to competitors elsewhere.  There is a pool of competitors that we could tap into by offering an event membership only for which we could charge.  A thought.