Author Topic: Motorcycle Classes Standardisation.  (Read 1186 times)

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Offline Jason Potts

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Re: Motorcycle Classes Standardisation.
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2019, 08:08:18 pm »
Quote
We do have to remember that it is after all a competition not a green lane fun day out and competitors should pick suitable machinery. (There is no Sub 150 class in the Moto GP.).

Firstly I commend you for your efforts in standardising classes in other clubs but your quote above to me sounds pretty harsh.

I personally don't see these events as a competition at all. Just a test of my own metal. I'd like to think that anyone could turn up on anything and give it a go.

My first attempt was on a 125 CZ road bike on road tyres. I would say that qualified as unsuitable machinery but I enjoyed myself anyway. And that's all that counts to me.

The fact that this club will allow you to do that is commendable and its great for spectators and Marshall's alike. it also shows that we are not the same as all the other offroad clubs and that we are  about something different.

There is a contingent in this club that still wants to retain that original pioneers challenge and I think we should incurage that. Who cares what Moto GP do, ain't seen no Honda c90's in that anyway.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 08:49:19 pm by Jason Potts »

Offline Stephen Bailey

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Re: Motorcycle Classes Standardisation.
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2019, 10:45:25 pm »
Well each to there own...

Some competitors have very strong opinions on rules and regulations like you would not believe.

I had to answer a few letters telling the ACTC why they thought the regulations did not apply to them.

I used to think that everyone thought the same as myself but unfortunatly this is not so..

We even had one Car competitor upon being refused to run in a different class that he wanted go round a few events and took notes on some cars which he did not think corresponded with the regulations and report the matter to the MSA.

There you go....  :)


Offline Stephen Bailey

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Re: Motorcycle Classes Standardisation.
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2019, 10:59:25 pm »
Anyway I still would like to know why the MCC Class structure is different only for Class B Motorcycles.... :)

Any MCC Committee member got an answer?

There has to be some reason...….. Especially as they are three bonus rounds in the ACTC Championship.


Offline Stephen Bailey

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Re: Motorcycle Classes Standardisation.
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2019, 11:02:08 pm »
Oh yeah I was ACTC Class 7 Coordinator for five years before I was the Motorcycle Coordinator.....

An MCC member for 33 years now...…  :)

Offline rick howell

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Re: Motorcycle Classes Standardisation.
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2019, 12:39:51 pm »
this is from the 2019 Torbay trial regs (out now). There's a few rules there I hadn't noticed before

3 MOTORCYCLE CLASSES
(A) Solo motor cycles of British manufacture. (Engine & Frame)(Pre 1965)
(B1) Solo motor cycles up to 225cc
(B2) Solo motor cycles over 225cc and up to 450cc.
(C) Solo motor cycles over 450cc.
(D) Motorcycles with touring or trials sidecars.
(E) 3 Wheelers (SEE APPENDIX)
(X) Motorcycles which don’t comply with Class A-D, and/or meet the descriptions below will run for Honours only (i.e. no
Championship influence).
 Wheelbase less than 1320 mm Note1 (Pre 1965 bikes in Class A are exempt from this dimension)
 Sidecar Outfits that do not meet the ACU Sidecar Outfit Specification. All Sidecar Outfits (Including those in Class X) Must
have a Nosecone and Padded Passenger Seat to the dimensions of that stated in the ACU Handbook for Trials Sidecars.

Note 1 - This dimension has been reduced from 1350mm to 1320mm in the ACTC Rules.

All Motorcycles must have daytime running lights, except Class A who are exempt.

PERMITTED MOTORCYCLE TYRES
Only tyres which conform to the specification of the ACU may be used.
Any motorcycle not complying with the ACU (ACTC) Tyre spec of Trials Tyres will not be allowed to start.
ACU Dimensions.
All tyres will be measured mounted on the rim inflated to a pressure of l4lbs/sq.in and must have a nominal aspect ratio of 100/100.
Overall width (O) measured at wheel spindle height must not exceed 115mm.

Refer to diagram:-

Tread depth (A) must not exceed 13mm. All tread blocks in the same circumference must be of the same depth. The space between the tread blocks (B) must not exceed 9.5mm across the tyre or 13mm in a circumferential direction (C). The space between the shoulder blocks (D) must not exceed 22m. The space across the tread (E) must not extend completely across the tyre measured at right angles to the tyre wall unless broken by a block. All main tread blocks must in principle be parallel with or at right angles in the tyre axis. (Tyre must have the same appearance if reversed and conform in principle with these diagrams). The tyre surface must not be fitted with any subsequently mounted elements such as anti-skid devices, chains, etc.

These dimensions will apply irrespective of Machine manufacturers or Tyre manufacturers statements.
In addition to above specifications Torbay Motor Club will accept tyres which have a non-square/rectangular block.
However, the space between the blocks across the tread must not exceed 12mm, and not exceed 16mm when
measured in a circumferential direction. The space across the tread must not extend completely across the tyre
measured at right angles to the tyre wall unless broken by a block

Examples of acceptable tyres - Bridgestone Trailwing 302, Pirelli MT43
Trials tyres for this event must be road legal.


Trailwing 302 tyres were considered by the MCC committee some time back but I think (I can't recall exactly and I may be wrong) they included the word "Enduro" in the description/branding so were not allowed.

Just for interest and comparison this was the ACTC rules for class X as issued in 2014

Class X: Any road-legal solo motorcycle or motorcycle sidecar outfit that does not comply with Classes A to
D above, and all motorcycles fitted with road legal tyres which do not comply with the dimensions
in ACU Regulation TSR8. Class X must run “hors concours” (ie engaged in a contest but not competing for a prize) in all ACTC Championship events.


« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 01:00:39 pm by rick howell »

Offline Stephen Bailey

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Re: Motorcycle Classes Standardisation.
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2019, 03:37:05 pm »
(X) Motorcycles which don’t comply with Class A-D, and/or meet the descriptions below will run for Honours only (i.e. no
Championship influence).
 Wheelbase less than 1320 mm

Class X: And all motorcycles fitted with road legal tyres which do not comply with the dimensions
in ACU Regulation TSR8..


Of course Trials clubs can make their own Supplementary rules. However I cant see the same being applied to the car classes.
Interesting is that the wheelbase of 1320mm is applied even tho it is actually 1350mm. And as for "Road Legal Tyres" there are many aggressive road legal enduro and motocross type tyres. I saw someone allowed to have a go on the Exmoor Trial once and had repeated attempts at the end of a section even when told not to by numerous other watching competitors. The ruts left made it almost impossible for the following competitors.

Surely in competitions standardisation must be present...

Can anyone then turn up in a class 7 or 8 Car with big knobbly tyres on and be allowed in class X?
 

Offline Ian T

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Re: Motorcycle Classes Standardisation.
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2019, 09:00:04 am »
On motorcycle tyres, the MCC will be revising the rules in the near future to make them more inclusive and easier to enforce, whilst still minimising erosion.

Details will be published in due course.

Offline Ian T

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Re: Motorcycle Classes Standardisation.
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2019, 09:06:49 am »
IMHO the wheelbase rule is flawed.

For example, based on what data I can gather, at 1350mm the popular Serow is relegated to class X. At 1320mm several modern trials bikes are allowed in class B2 (e.g; Montesa 4RT at 1321mm), but an XL185S would be relegated to class X.

I understand an exemption for some bikes can be applied for. Regardless of that, as it stands several modern trials bikes are compliant for class B2 - the wheelbase rule precipitates the very thing it was supposed to prevent.

The rule also doesn't mention how the wheelbase is to be measured. Chain adjustment and suspension movement both affect wheelbase.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 09:14:59 am by Ian T »

Offline Stephen Bailey

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Re: Motorcycle Classes Standardisation.
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2019, 12:14:24 pm »
I agree Ian. The ACTC Council at the time considered the wheelbase to be the only criteria to be written into the regulations and ignored the Trail / Trials Aspect, the Pillion Aspect and the Historic aspect except for Class A.


Time for a re write...…  :)