Author Topic: Auxillary lighting  (Read 2820 times)

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Offline Christopher Jones (The Sloth)

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Auxillary lighting
« on: September 22, 2018, 05:38:12 pm »
Hello Folks,

Its a few years since ive trialled but I'm going to put a class R entry in for the Exeter using my vintage FIAT, it has nice original headlights but since they are 88 years old the performance isnt up to much. What do the regs say about installing an auxillary driving light? Is that a big no no? I remember summat in news of the week about it but have forgotten.

Thanks
Chris (sloth)

Offline Christopher Jones (The Sloth)

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Re: Auxillary lighting
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2018, 05:41:15 pm »
Auxiliary...I mean. ::) :

Offline Paul Wheatley (Wheaters)

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Re: Auxillary lighting
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2018, 11:57:30 am »
I remember recently reading something about auxiliary LED lights not being allowed on bikes, but I'm nor sure if cars were mentioned.
Cheers, PW.

Offline Paul K

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Re: Auxillary lighting
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2018, 04:54:14 pm »
Looks to me like you can use them. Page 16 of the SSR 2019 (published by courtesy of the MSA 2018 year book) shows extracts from the MSA Technical Regulations, Section (J) and (T), and states:

Electrical Systems.
(T) 10.13 Have a maximum of four forward facing beams in addition to side and indicator lights.
(T) 10.13.1 Auxiliary lights should not be used in non-competitive sections except in conditions of fog or falling snow as permitted by law.
(T) 10.13.2 All lights must be fitted and used in accordance with the motor vehicle lighting regulations.

Bear in mind that you don't want to be dazzling the Observers in the competitive sections and that you can't use them other than in fog or falling snow.  We don't want to cheese off the local residents.

Offline Jonathan Laver

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Re: Auxillary lighting
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2018, 07:59:03 pm »
Hi Chris,

Approaching this from a different angle. Historically those looking for brighter headlights have taken all sorts of action. The norm being up grading their sealed beam units for halogen bulbs, followed by up grading the lens/reflectors. Then there is the old school resolve of changing the 45/50 W bulbs for the legendary 100/80 W.  At one point in time these were not for road use though I have never known anyone asking to inspect them !  One of the most effective methods to improve the light output is to give the bulbs a direct quality 12v supply. The light switch and wiring of mature vehicles has quite a draw down upon the amps. A pair of independent relays,  supplying a good 12v to each headlight, fired by the lighting switches will make a noticeable difference and save your light / dip switches from burning out. You could also pick up a feed from them to any auxiliary lighting relay you may fit. Yes its a few hours work, not much money but effective. Wiring details on the web.
Jonathan L.

Offline Christopher Jones (The Sloth)

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Re: Auxillary lighting
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2018, 09:53:57 pm »
OK I think I have a plan. Fit LeDs to all but the headlights and save ampage for the beam which will be a halogen

Offline rick howell

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Re: Auxillary lighting
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2018, 10:54:42 pm »
The 2019 Exeter Route Card and final instructions have landed on my doormat. With reference to the topic of this thread, on page 4 under the heading "Front Beam Lights" it clearly states that from 1st jan 2018 MSA blue book sect R 18.5 and section T 10.13 and MCC SSR 2019 10.13 states "Auxiliary lamps unless fitted as standard equipment using gas discharge or LED technology are not permitted and gas discharge or LED headlamp units may not be retro fitted"

Now the MSA blue book regs cover cars not motorcycles (which are under ACU regs and I believe I'm correct in stating that there is no clause relating to LED replacements) and actually the MCC SSR 2019 10.13 doesn't mention gas discharge or LED lamps anyway (or have I misread it!)

So for motorcycles, LEDs are fine whether auxiliary or main, retro fit or original equipment. If you know differently please let me know before the Exeter.....

FWIW in my experience LED lamps tend to be incorrectly manufactured as replacements - the light source (the LEDs themselves) are generally found to be in a different position relative to the reflector once fitted than the tungsten equivalents and therefore generally suffer from poor light spread. With a bit of work and effort they can be certainly worth the bother especially with some machines that were very much fitted with "afterthought" lights (as is my SP370) with it's 6v direct headlamp.

Clearly from a safety standpoint the use of LEDs to improve any headlamps within the law (I have them on my '54 Ford Pop too) is to be welcomed.

david@whitepost.me.uk

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Re: Auxillary lighting
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2018, 08:41:30 am »
I'm not sure what the issue is for The MCC.

When these trials started, I'm sure people were using the best lights available at the time.  Without being ridiculous, such as fitting huge light bars, upgrading bulbs shouldn't really be an issue should it, or is just another thing for the box tickers to be able to complain about?

I have two LED DLR lights on my bike, which are on low all of the time.  They come on at full power when main beam is on.  I need these as the actual headlight is the equivalent of a couple of glowworms. (not sure if this is an official unit of measure)

How much of an advantage would it be having LED bulbs instead of the 1980's or 90's standard, when there are modern cars and bikes taking part with LED's or similar fitted as standard?  Surely it just levels the playing field a bit?

Offline Jason Potts

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Re: Auxillary lighting
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2018, 08:52:19 am »
I think they are saying LED lights on full plus full beam blinds the crap out of the observers.

david@whitepost.me.uk

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Re: Auxillary lighting
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2018, 08:55:49 am »
Yeah but how are you supposed to go through the section without seeing it.

They're quite difficult and I'd rather not tackle one by guess work.  I'll happily contribute to a sunglasses kitty for the observers.   ;)

Offline rick howell

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Re: Auxillary lighting
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2018, 11:05:30 am »
I think they are saying LED lights on full plus full beam blinds the crap out of the observers.
Hi Jase - I agree that riding up to the start line on full beam is unfair to the start marshall and dip or even side lights help their task at 4 in the morning when it's blowing a hoolie and lashing with rain. But once you're in the section, as you and I know from marshalling ourselves that not much can be seen from the front anyway, so the Marshal(s) positioned behind the rider is(are) the one(s) who can detect footing etc, so the rider should be able to use full beam in the section as Tufty suggests. Hell, the cars have two lights anyway (and potentially 100w each lamp) and they're not connected to the steering wheel.


Alastair Queen

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Re: Auxillary lighting
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2018, 11:08:44 am »

Offline rick howell

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Re: Auxillary lighting
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2018, 11:12:51 am »
However, please avoid illuminating the insides of houses on the route (hence the dipped beam instructions) and avoid dazzling anyone including our hard-working observers.

FWIW standard H4 filament bulb headlight has always been good enough for me, and I don't have the best eyesight.


Agreed. QQ means dipped headlights and I get how local residents would be well fed-up with 300 or so full headlamps coming past every minute or so over a 4 or 5 hour period in the early hours in the morning.

As for a standard H4 I'd like to use one but the generator on my bike is so feeble that there's no real choice but to use LEDs. 25 or 30W at 6v is not an option, and my safety counts too.

Offline rick howell

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Re: Auxillary lighting
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2018, 11:14:41 am »
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71UgRzFUw9L._UX385_.jpg

For the discerning ancient car driver?  :)
just the job on the Land's End - you would blend right in driving through Minions

Offline Jason Potts

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Re: Auxillary lighting
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2018, 01:46:51 pm »
I feel your pain when it comes to 6v lights. just saying why the MCC might have a problem with LED spot lights. if you do look directly at them they will bugger up your night vision and you cant see anything when the next contestant comes along.

having said that you do need to be able to see otherwise whats the point.

I find though not seeing too much helps me. if I see too much I generally start crapping it. hahahah ;D