Author Topic: X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs  (Read 5596 times)

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Offline Julian East

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X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs
« on: May 25, 2018, 08:57:41 am »
Are we all aware of the 2016 SSRs which prohibit the use of these vehicles which have been converted from 4WD to 2WD.  We all know Suzuki have built them in 2WD specification. The removal of front diffs, driveshafts and propshafts, apart from transfer box, render them the same as manufacturers 2WD spec.

However entries for the converted cars have continued to be accepted up until now without any reference to the 2016 ruling, a precedent would seem to have been accepted, but I am now advised by Bill Rosten and Simon Woodall that these converted cars will be prohibited from 1/1/2019.

The logic behind this is hard to establish, membership numbers are certainly likely to be affected as a considerable number of X90s have been converted along with a smaller number of GV2000s. I am sure owners of all vehicles to be affected by this prohibition order will feel pretty sore that the time and money spent in preparing their cars will have been wasted and they will be left with vehicles which are rendered worthless. I have asked that the committee might reconsider this prohibition in their September meeting as surely a compromise can be reached to keep all sides happy.

Your comments and thoughts please !!

Offline Paul Wheatley

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Re: X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2018, 12:47:52 pm »
This seems a bit like building a house then complaining because you can't get retrospective planning permission.

But I do remember the ruling being publicised by the club quite some time ago in NOTW. Having long since been surprised to see more of these types of vehicles out on the trials, I assumed it had been rescinded.
PW.

Offline Jason Potts

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Re: X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs
« Reply #2 on: May 25, 2018, 03:52:16 pm »
To be fair most x90's are 2wd and the converted 4wd ones are stronger because they don't have the bendy independent front wish bones.  ::)

I must admit though this is the first time I've heard this so thanks for that Jules.

Offline Paul K

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Re: X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2018, 05:53:04 pm »
Jules, I empathise with you on this matter.  When I first thought of having a go in the car classes, I looked at a Suzuki Jimny with the idea of ditching the front propshaft and removing the front differential.  Them I became aware of rule K in the SSRs, i.e. 'Any four wheel drive vehicle modified to operate in two wheel drive is prohibited. Vehicles originally supplied in two wheel drive only from a model range including four wheel drive versions will be eligible'.  So that was the end of that idea :(.

I didn't particularly want a saloon car; most are FWD and I didn't want to spend loads of time repairing floor pans, suspension turrets, etc, etc.  I don't have the time, space, or inclination.  A beefy chassis and suspension seems just the ticket :).

What seems odd, taking the X-90 as an example is that the 2WD is eligible, but if the 4WD is converted to the same spec as the 2WD, the previously 4WD is still not eligible.

With regards to a GV2000 currently competing, I believe this vehicle was competing before the rule change so this competitor was allowed to carry on competing, but with the proviso that if he sold the vehicle, the new owner would not be allowed to enter MCC trials with it.  I stand to be corrected on this.

I'm not totally clued up on car classes; but, taking a class 8 car that was constructed from a 4WD chassis, yet with one-off bodywork, rear wheel drive, 2WD gearbox; would that be allowed to enter an MCC trial  ???

Offline Alastair Queen

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Re: X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2018, 07:41:17 pm »
Class 8= non-production cars...so where the chassis came form may be irrelevant?  [It won't be registered as a Land rover, will it? Surely the kiss-o'-death for a reliability trial??  :)    ]

The 4wd rule applies probably to production vehicles.

Offline Jason Potts

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Re: X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2018, 06:53:22 pm »
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To be fair most x90's are 2wd and the converted 4wd ones are stronger because they don't have the bendy independent front wish bones.  ::)
Sorry I got this wrong, the 4wd x90's have independent front wishbones too. I thought they used a solid beam axle like the SJ's.

So removing the front prop, diff and driveshafts only leaves the gearbox and transfer box as being different? And currently there's no ruling regards the fitting of these items to a 2wd version anyway. This seems daft to ban these if this work has been carried out. There's a lot of x90 people in this club, let's not kick half of them out. It's a simple check during scrutineering to see if this work has been carried out.

I totally understand the club's viewpoint though,  they want the cars to look like cars, and not 4x4's. And gv2000's are the thin end of the wedge to be fare. Sorry gv owners but next it will be rav4's then freelanders then landrovers then BMW x5's, Toyota land cruiser's. I'm going to stop there. :(

Offline Julian East

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Re: X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2018, 11:27:53 am »
Hi Jason
Thanks for your input, however the GV2000 is a little different from the run of the mill 4WD vehicles you mention. It is a direct descendent of the X90 and it has been built by Suzuki in parts of the world in 2WD form which none of the others have, ( Rav 4, X5, Land Rover etc etc.,) so it does comply in that respect. So on behalf of all other GV 2000 members we are hoping for support from X90 members who have converted their vehicles to 2WD, so that we might all continue to support the MCC and enjoy the events.

Offline Jason Potts

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Re: X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2018, 05:35:46 pm »
I don't agree with any of that.

Offline Simon Woodall

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Re: X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2018, 03:48:54 pm »
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2WD form which none of the others have, ( Rav 4, X5, Land Rover etc etc.,)

Actually part of the minefield in which this sits, is the fact that Land-Rover Defender was offered in 2WD form (by LRSVO), as are the current Range-Rover Evoque and Velar.   So was the Jeep Cherokee and if you really want to go mad, the Chevrolet Suburban.

Offline Alastair Queen

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Re: X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2018, 10:03:57 am »
Willys Jeeps were also made/sold in 2wd form...for utilities such as US Postal service, etc.

Remind me again, why a 2wd Series Landrover wouldn't be too successful trialling??

Offline Jason Potts

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Re: X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2018, 11:05:28 am »
Ironic that the name of this club is The Motorcycling Club, and it's now under attack from 4x4 enthusiasts.  :o

Seriously though I think it's a lot to do with the public's perception of the club too. If they see a load of 4x4's trundling though their villages it just looks like another 4x4 club. Also perspective new member's might see these vehicles either on a section or on YouTube and want to enter their landrover's etc. it will then be the job of someone in the club to turn them away.

The club works hard trying to build public relations with local authorities and the general public and convincing them we are not out to destroy the countryside can be hard work. Some 4x4 weekenders undo all this as they don't seek the proper permissions, they hack off walker's and horse riders etc and this is why they have shut down most of the Peak District.

Offline Paul K

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Re: X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2018, 05:03:32 pm »
So.  Accepting that the MCC doesn't want 4WD-loooking vehicles in our trials because of the adverse image, and also accepting that the 2WD manufacturer's model of a 4WD is eligible, perhaps there is a way round this conundrum ;).

Would it be possible to modify the bodywork of such a 2WD manufacturer's model so that the resulting vehicle had the looks of a 1930s to 1950s vehicle.  That could be, for example, cycle guards on the front, separate headlamps, polished aluminium bonnet, old style rear lights, etc.  The overall effect to the uninitiated would be to not associate the vehicle with the 4x4 community.  All to change the public perception of the vehicle :).

There might be complications with the DVLA, involving single vehicle approval (SVA), depending on the amount and type of changes.  I've never been down that road so have little knowledge of what is involved.

But, if I got the nod, I'd consider adapting some beefy vehicle for MCC trials.

Offline Jason Potts

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Re: X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2018, 06:12:39 pm »
Hahahaha you really like the idea of fitting a Morris minor body on a X90 Paul. A moggy body would also fit on a first generation Vitara too by the way. It won't fit on a gv2000 as they are longer but a body swap is a solution worth pursuing. I think they will be class 8 vehicles though.

I once purchased some plans from a guy in Derby who was converting Suzuki SJ's into old MG looking cars. Homemade body using marine plywood, really neat looking and pretty easy to do. Just had a look on eBay but his plans arnt on there right now. His other stuff is though.

Ironically I think the Jago Jeep is eligible and this convert's a Ford Escort into something that looks exactly like a WW2 jeep

Some inside knowledge......
When I was purchasing my X90 form the infamous Paul Brooks, in his shed he was working on a Smart Car Roadster......  Just saying right..... Wink wink

Offline Paul K

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Re: X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2018, 05:46:50 am »
Yep; that moggie did look good  :D.

Have you got a link to this guy with the bits?  He sounds like an interesting guy.

As for the Smart Car, do you reckon Paul Brooks might post some photos in a new Topic  :).

Offline Paul Wheatley

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Re: X90 and GV 2000 Members to be affected by 2016 SSRs
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2018, 06:00:27 pm »
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I once purchased some plans from a guy in Derby who was converting Suzuki SJ's into old MG looking cars. Homemade body using marine plywood, really neat looking and pretty easy to do. Just had a look on eBay but his plans arnt on there right now. His other stuff is though.

Probably John Cowperthwaite (J.C. Midge, Mk1 based on the Triumph Herald chassis, Mk2 on the Suzuki SJ410/413). He lives quite close to my location, by J30 M1.
PW.