Fire extinguisher AFFF or POWDER?

[Thorsten Klein]

Dear all,


We will take part in our 2nd trial (Edinburgh again), but the first time with our own car.


Which type of fire extinguisher is needed? AFFF or powder type?


Somewhere in the MSA literature I have read AFFF, but many car accessory shops only sell powder type extinguishers.


Thanks a lot in advance,
Thorsten


2CV, Mainz, Germany

[Myke Pocock]

AFFF min 1.75kg. You can have two but they must add up to a minimum of 1.75kg. Try ebay?

[Paul K]

When I bought an extinguisher for the Citroen three-wheeler a few years back, the best buy was from the supplier JJC Race and Rally, Kencourt Ltd, PO Box 2333, LL11 OHB, who sold an extinguisher manufactured by Lifeline Fire & Safety Systems, Burnsall Road, Coventry, CV5 6BU. I think the part no. was JJC201-100-002

[Paul K]

Thorsten, I just noticed that you're based in Germany so giving you the name of a UK supplier was not much good.

I might be telling you something you know already, but you need a reverse light on the 2CV.  For my 2CV, I installed the reverse switch and a telltale in the instrument panel (no reverse switch in the gearbox).

[Thorsten Klein]

Hi Paul, hi Mike,


Thanks for the fast replies.
UK supplier should not be a big problem - we will stay a few days at a friend's (MCC member also) home before we travel to Tamworth. We will install the fire extinguisher while we are there.


The 2CV was completely restored last year and we have installed a rear light switch kit from VGS. For the trial I plan to change the '80s style reverse light of a complete LED unit (cheap, bright and also less protruding).


See you at the trial,
Thorsten

[Thorsten Klein]

I have an additional question. Is an AFFF extinguisher from eBay ok or does it need MSA or FIA approval?
The cheap ones begin at around 20 GBP, the MSA approved ones cost around 70 GBP.


Thanks in advance,
Thorsten

[Paul K]

I had a look in the MSA blue book, which you can download from the internet, and read the main parts in section K Competitors: Safety.  The main points for hand held extinguishers are:

1.  ' ... operable by the driver whilst normally seated either by manual operation or by a mechanically/electrically assisted triggering system'.
2. ' ... recommended that all extinguishers are serviced in accordance with the manufacturers guidelines, or every 24 months, whichever is sooner'.
3. 'Dry powder extinguishers are prohibited'.
4. 'Permitted Extinguishants AFFF, ZERO 2000'.
5. 'Hand-held extinguishers .... Must not be carried loose but should be retained in positive quick release brackets, secured to the vehicle by a minimum of two 6mm bolts'.
6. 'Extinguishers with pressure gauges are recommended'.
7. 'The tare weight of the unit must be clearly marked on the cylinder'.
8. 'It is recommended that all fire extinguisher bottles be securely mounted within the main structure of the vehicle. It is prohibited to mount bottles of over the medium capacity outside the main structure'.

Another point in the blue book states 'Plumbed-In Systems (If AFFF they must be FIA/MSA homologated)'.  No mention of hand-held extinguishers.

Lastly, 'Minimum recommendation is for a 1.75 litre AFFF extinguisher or equivalent with BS4123/EN3 approval (EN3 minimum size is 2 litre AFFF) and a rating of at least 34B. More sophisticated equipment is required in many events and full vehicle systems are highly recommended'.

Hope that helps.

[Myke Pocock]

No doesn't need FIA or MSA approval.

[Mark Gregg]

thank you for the input Paul K..  I m struck by one of those points..

must be operable whilst seated...

not on many class 7/ 8 etc where they are clipped to the very rear of the car as ballast..

[Paul K]

The same thought struck me when I read it. Very long arms maybe. Better put that point to the scrutineers 

[Thorsten Klein]

Hi Myke, hi Paul,


Thanks a lot!
I will buy a cheap one then - better to replace it regularly then.


See you at the Edinburgh.


Kind regards,
Thorsten

[Simon Woodall]

Paul should have included T10.2 (trials specific regulations) in his quote from the Blue Book.
10.2. All vehicles must comply with Construction and Use Regulations and be fitted with safety belts if appropriate.   Fire extinguishers to a level of safety specified in K.3.1.1 are mandatory and which are accessible to the crew.

The last words allow an external fitment.   If I were you, I would fit it immediately forward of the front passenger seat, right up against the seat where it is not in the way of Pia's legs, but easy to reach.

[Thorsten Klein]

Hi Simon, thanks for the good advise.
The fire extinguisher already arrived near Malvern.
Is it allowed to bold it to the seat frame? Or is it required to bold it to the body? 2x M6 bolt is clear.


Bye, Thorsten